TAMASKAN DOG FORUM

arianwenarie · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:50 pm Post subject: Puppy Training

One of my friends bought a 7 week old Beagle/Dachshund mix over the weekend and they're having trouble coming up with a schedule for the pup.

Here's the main problem: no time. He and his roomates are college students and they are not home for at least 7 hours during the regular week (M-F). Therefore, the puppy must be contained (currently being contained in a soft travel carrier) for at least 7 hours a day. Any suggestions on what they can do for this poor puppy? I was thinking they will need at least a wire crate or an exercise pen in their kitchenette if the puppy is to be alone for such a long time like that. I'm considering taking a bit of my own time to go to my friend's place to care for the dog (about 1-2 hours each day after classes) for the time that my friend is unable to due to classes.

I have to say up front that I totally disagree on the purchase of this dog as a birthday present - there was not thought put into the care of the dog and the decision was made on complete impulse.

Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!!

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Blustag · Moderator Joined: 09 Jul 2008 Posts: 1233 Location: UK

Sorry, but the best thing for this poor puppy is to be rehomed immediately. I feel soooooo sad for it. This is definately NOT a good situation. Perhaps you can persuade them to find it a good home with people there to care for it during this very important stage of its life.

arianwenarie · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject:

I feel the same way, but he and his girlfriend really wants to make this work. I can't think of a good solution for this situation though and the outcome is looking pretty bleak.

After voicing my opinion on several different aspects (training, food, health care, etc) last night upon learning of the puppy's situation, I find it very unlikely that these two friends will listen to anything else that I have to say therefore, I believe rehoming or returning the dog is not an option they are considering. =(

Crying or Very sad

I want to do something for this puppy, but since it isn't my dog, there really isn't much that I CAN do. ugh.

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DJNickUK · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject:

This sounds a little harsh to do to friends, but I would contact Animal Welfare.

That situation, IMO, is just not on! Its cruelty and neglect at best.

arianwenarie · Posted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 8:21 pm Post subject:

Well, it has been about a week since they got this puppy, but I'm trying to persuade them to see if they'll allow me to help with the care of this poor pup.

I would really hate to have the puppy wind up in our city's shelter. I have volunteered there as a dog walker and the living conditions there aren't that great. I've been to other shelters that are more sanitary (and definitely better smelling!) than the city shelter. I stopped volunteering at that shelter because I couldn't stand the heavy smell of dog waste - there were too many dogs, not enough people let the dogs out for potty breaks or enough people to clean the kennels. (Still a bad environment...)

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Sylvaen · Moderator Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 558 Location: Croatia

Any update? I really hope the situation has since improved for the pup! Confused

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arianwenarie · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject:

My friend and his girlfriend take turns skipping classes each day to tend to the pup so it's minimally acceptable for me. They refused to allow me to help even though I had a more flexible schedule than them.

It turns out that one of my friend's roommates is allergic to dogs so my friend was going to give the pup up for adoption, but after some discussion, he decided to keep the pup.

Thank goodness the pup takes to crating very well. No accidents yet! =) The outlook for this pup isn't as bleak as I had previously imagined, but it's still not what I'd call ideal.

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arianwenarie · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject:

When my friend told me he was considering giving the pup up for adoption, the first thing I asked was whether he contacted the breeder yet. He never considered the option of contacting the breeder and immediately concluded the breeder will not take the pup back because he thinks it was an accidental breeding. I feel the same way too, but there's the possibility that the "breeder" may take the puppy back.

I asked my friend if he ever came up on the situation where he will surrender the puppy to the city shelter, he should ask me for help before he proceeds to surrender the puppy.

I already have a list of Beagle rescue groups' contacts on my computer in case he decides on a owner surrender. =) The puppy has the looks and build of a Beagle, but the height and length of a Dachschund...haha.

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Darazan · Posted: Tue Oct 28, 2008 10:13 pm Post subject: What to do...?

I know of a similar situation, and I also don't know how to handle it. My fiancee's brother lives across the street from us, he has 2 dogs, a Border Collie (Lefty) and a mix (Buddy) that he rescued from his ex's parents house after it was attacked by a Pitbull. He has a decent yard for them both, but it's not taken care of at all, and he hasn't bothered to train either of these dogs, professionally or on his own. He doesn't feed them like they should be, so whenever I see them, it's just sad. All they really want is food and attention, and they barely get any of both. I've offered to feed them everyday and give them basics in training or pay for classes, but he won't have any of it. He doesn't want me or anyone else back there without him being there, because he doesn't want them "attacking" us, but I've been there with them before and they're great dogs, just in a bad situation. I don't know what to do about it, but I'm worried for their safety and health. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Carron River · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: Re: What to do...?

[quote="Darazan"]My fiancee's brother lives across the street from us, he has 2 dogs, a Border Collie (Lefty) and a mix (Buddy) that he rescued from his ex's parents house after it was attacked by a Pitbull. I've offered to feed them everyday and give them basics in training or pay for classes, but he won't have any of it. [quote]

Cant your fiancee talk some sense into him? I dont understand why he would refuse your help. Perhaps, as has already been suggested re another post, if you really cant come to some arrangement, you should contact Animal Welfare.

It is so sad to think of these poor dogs being hungry and neglected, and also the puppy in the earlier posts being shut up alone for hours and hours. People really should do some research into animal requirements before they go ahead and get them, as I am sure a lot of cruelty arises through ignorance.

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Darazan · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject:

Sadly, he doesn't even listen to his own mother in this matter. I'm currently looking into rescue agencies to see where they can go if the situation doesn't get better. There's a border collie rescue in town, but I don't know about a mix breed one.

Sylvaen · Moderator Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 558 Location: Croatia

arianwenarie wrote:

My friend and his girlfriend take turns skipping classes each day to tend to the pup so it's minimally acceptable for me. They refused to allow me to help even though I had a more flexible schedule than them.

Arg! What a frustrating situation... it's anything but ideal! It also doesn't sound like a very permanent solution because there are only so many classes that they can skip before it starts affecting their grades and, when that starts to happen, the puppy is likely to be left alone at home again. Confused

Anyway you look at it, it's a lose:lose situation... for both of them but especially for the young pup who did nothing to deserve this situation, which is lacking even the most basic puppy requirements. Evil or Very Mad

Do they have family members (parents / siblings / etc) who can take the pup for the meanwhile (until they are finished with school or have more flexible schedules)? It seems like the wrong time in life for them to have made this (in my opinion, very irresponsible) decision. IMHO, they need to grow up fast and start making some adult decisions: either deal with the heartbreak and rehome the pup for it's own sake, or start acting like responsible owners and drop some classes so that the puppy won't be left alone. To me a puppy is the same as a child: they need constant care and attention. The only difference is that if the puppy were a child the parents (owners) would probably be more willing to work out a better solution or the child-protection services would have gotten involved by now... *sigh*

arianwenarie wrote:

Thank goodness the pup takes to crating very well. No accidents yet! =) The outlook for this pup isn't as bleak as I had previously imagined, but it's still not what I'd call ideal.

The pup may take well to crating but he can't spend the majority of his young life in a cage... all day long! Well, he can... but he shouldn't!!! He's not a gerbil! Evil or Very Mad

He requires exercise, proper socialization, and attention otherwise he's probably going to develop mistrust and resentment towards people, not to mention other dogs, around which he won't know how to act or behave. Anyway, I really hope the situation gets sorted out for the good of all involved... the puppy in particular and the sooner the better!

Darazan wrote:

I know of a similar situation, and I also don't know how to handle it. My fiancee's brother lives across the street from us, he has 2 dogs, a Border Collie (Lefty) and a mix (Buddy) that he rescued from his ex's parents house after it was attacked by a Pitbull.

The situation is quite similar however there are also a couple of important differences: firstly, the dogs are not puppies, they are adults; secondly, while they may be lacking human company, they do at least have one another so they are not completely alone.

Adult dogs still require lots of attention but the need is far less than that of a growing / developing puppy, which requires proper care and socialization during the "formative" training period, which influences how it will act and behave towards other dogs and people for the rest of it's life. Also, the fact that the two dogs can play and interact with one another is a huge benefit. I'm sure they miss human company but the need is much less than if it were just one dog locked inside all alone, all day long. That being said, I think there is certainly room for improvement in this particular situation. Wink

Darazan wrote:

He has a decent yard for them both, but it's not taken care of at all, and he hasn't bothered to train either of these dogs, professionally or on his own.

The fact that he has a decent yard is a great bonus because it means that they will get plenty of exercise by running around and playing by themselves. However, there is nothing you can do about the fact that he doesn't take care of the yard; it's his property and his prerogative to do with as he pleases, provided it is SAFE for the dogs: no rusting scrap metal, barbed wire, broken glass, or anything that could hurt them. If it's very dirty and smelly (lots of feces) then it might harbor a disease problem and could be an issue that the local neighborhood council would want cleaned up, depending on the community rules.

If it's just overgrown and unkempt (but not dangerous) then it's not really an issue and I'm sure the dogs don't mind. The main thing is that they must (by law) have access to adequate shelter (from heat and cold) and fresh water at all times. Exclamation

Additionally, while the lack of proper training is bothersome to most dog-owners, there's nothing that you can really do about it except to persuade or advise him to change his mind. Since he is the owner it's up to him if he wants to make the effort to train his dogs or not. There are no laws that say you must train your dogs and, provided they are not loud or causing a nuisance, the local council is not going to get involved over it. Rolling Eyes

Darazan wrote:

He doesn't feed them like they should be, so whenever I see them, it's just sad. All they really want is food and attention, and they barely get any of both.

The one main problem is the lack of proper daily food... this is the most serious issue of all and the owner is most definitely required to provide them with an adequate supply. Do they seem exceptionally and unnaturally thin or just a bit on the lean side? There's a world of difference between a fit and healthy, slightly-underweight dog and one that is nothing but skin and bones, really weak and malnourished. If they fall into the latter category, this is definitely an issue that you should contact the authorities about... before it is too late! Shocked

Darazan wrote:

I've offered to feed them everyday and give them basics in training or pay for classes, but he won't have any of it.

I understand your frustration and it is a really annoying situation but, realistically, unless it's a matter of life and death there isn't much you can do except to keep pressuring him and offering to help out. Although he sounds stubborn, I can also see his side of the scenario, which is that he is probably unaware of the problem or that he doesn't even see it as a problem so that's why he's probably taking offense to your offers of help. Rolling Eyes

Darazan wrote:

He doesn't want me or anyone else back there without him being there, because he doesn't want them "attacking" us, but I've been there with them before and they're great dogs, just in a bad situation.

This is understandable and, if I were the owner, I wouldn't take the risk either. In America there is always the risk that if something goes wrong on your property, particularly with your own dogs, that you could be faced with a huge lawsuit! Also, they might be great dogs but if something were to randomly happen out-of-the-blue when he's not at home and, for example, they just so happen to bite someone they can be taken and euthanized (depending on the local laws)! It's a worst-case scenario but it happens all too often. Sad

Also, it's hard to judge from a small bit of text over the internet but it's possible that you don't know the full extent of the situation: maybe he wakes up really early to walk the dogs and feeds them before he leaves for work, for instance. Unless you are fully aware of the whole situation, it could seem as though he doesn't love or care for them... when really he does and is... if you get my drift. I know it's not ideal, but if he provides all the basics as required by law then he isn't doing anything (legally) wrong and if he refuses to change then there isn't anything you can do. Of course, by all means, continue to offer to help and perhaps the situation can be improved. Smile

The best thing you can do is work out an agreement and perhaps schedule a time to walk / train them together so he can see how you are with them and so that he can trust to leave them in your responsibility while he's away. Good luck! Very Happy

Carron River wrote:

It is so sad to think of these poor dogs being hungry and neglected, and also the puppy in the earlier posts being shut up alone for hours and hours. People really should do some research into animal requirements before they go ahead and get them, as I am sure a lot of cruelty arises through ignorance.

Well said!! Very Happy

I agree 100%

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arianwenarie · Posted: Wed Oct 29, 2008 8:38 pm Post subject:

Debby2000 wrote:

Arg! What a frustrating situation... it's anything but ideal! It also doesn't sound like a very permanent solution because there are only so many classes that they can skip before it starts affecting their grades and, when that starts to happen, the puppy is likely to be left alone at home again. Confused

Yes, it's not very permanent. But on the brighter side (if there's a brighter side), his girlfriend is graduating in December so that means she can take the puppy to her house and be with him most of the time.

Debby2000 wrote:

Anyway you look at it, it's a lose:lose situation... for both of them but especially for the young pup who did nothing to deserve this situation, which is lacking even the most basic puppy requirements.

No matter what or who we place the blame on now, there's really nothing anyone can do about the situation they chose to put themselves and the puppy in. If my schedule allowed it, I would have persuaded them to allow me to temporarily adopt the puppy...but unfortunately, I don't have the time or financial means to see to the needs of a dog, much less a puppy.

Debby2000 wrote:

Do they have family members (parents / siblings / etc) who can take the pup for the meanwhile (until they are finished with school or have more flexible schedules)? It seems like the wrong time in life for them to have made this (in my opinion, very irresponsible) decision. IMHO, they need to grow up fast and start making some adult decisions: either deal with the heartbreak and rehome the pup for it's own sake, or start acting like responsible owners and drop some classes so that the puppy won't be left alone. To me a puppy is the same as a child: they need constant care and attention. The only difference is that if the puppy were a child the parents (owners) would probably be more willing to work out a better solution or the child-protection services would have gotten involved by now... *sigh*

I have pointed out to them several times that there is a vast difference between a want and a necessity. It seems they still don't understand the difference on the level that I understand it because all they say in response to this is: What's done is done and it can't be undone.

Debby2000 wrote:

The pup may take well to crating but he can't spend the majority of his young life in a cage... all day long! Well, he can... but he shouldn't!!! He's not a gerbil!

Yes, I understand this as well, but there's nothing I can do about it...perhaps I should have recommended a gerbil, rabbit or reptile to them when they were looking for a pet. Too bad they wanted a dog. =|

Debby2000 wrote:

He requires exercise, proper socialization, and attention otherwise he's probably going to develop mistrust and resentment towards people, not to mention other dogs, around which he won't know how to act or behave. Anyway, I really hope the situation gets sorted out for the good of all involved... the puppy in particular and the sooner the better!

I went to see how the puppy was doing the other day and I could already see signs of separation anxiety. I gave them links to a few websites that teach owners how to deal with separation anxiety, but I'm not sure if they are doing anything to help him (the puppy) cope with the problem. Sad

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Sylvaen · Moderator Joined: 25 Sep 2008 Posts: 558 Location: Croatia

arianwenarie wrote:

But on the brighter side (if there's a brighter side), his girlfriend is graduating in December so that means she can take the puppy to her house and be with him most of the time.

Well that is some good news at least! It's still a little ways away but at least there is some light at the end of the tunnel. The main thing is that they come up with some kind of strategy plan between now and then that will work with both of their schedules but with the puppy's welfare (both physical and mental) as the main priority.

I'm also graduating this December so I'm well aware of the stress and workload that she must be going though (since this is her last term) but why they couldn't wait until after she graduates to get a puppy is totally beyond me. It's craziness because there's no way that she can possibly put the puppy as her first priority during this hectic period. Anyway, hopefully her boyfriend can step in and they can take turns to be good owners.

arianwenarie wrote:

I went to see how the puppy was doing the other day and I could already see signs of separation anxiety. I gave them links to a few websites that teach owners how to deal with separation anxiety, but I'm not sure if they are doing anything to help him (the puppy) cope with the problem. Sad

Such a shame... poor chap. Crying or Very sad

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arianwenarie · Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 10:20 pm Post subject:

Update!

I heard from my friend that they've been taking time on the weekends to give the pup basic training! He knows 'sit', 'stay' and 'come'! They're trying to teach him the 'leave it' command since he's not too fond of 'down'. I can't express how happy I am to know that they're actually training the pup! =D When I first created this thread, they were adamant about no training mainly because they didn't have time. I don't know what caused the change of heart, but I'm glad that they did.

I'll keep you guys posted on the progress of the pup as I learn more.

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