Hi all!
Just wondering if others experience the same thing with flea and tick treatment on their dogs:

We use Advantix because the woods here are riddled with ticks But when I apply it to Fen & Freyja they both whine for a good while before going to sleep (we put it on them before going to bed--so that it dries in the crate before morning and the cats are not exposed to the tick stuff--which is poison to the cats)

So anyway...maybe I'm way nuts, but I feel kinda bad about putting something on them that may hurt.

Does it hurt them? What do you guys think?

Of course we won't stop putting it on them--it's more important that they don't get fleas and ticks...

But maybe you guys use something else other than Advantix or the other industrial strength stuff. Is there an alternative?

I just am concerned because I know permethrin is a poison. It's in the tick spray I use on my clothes, but it explicitly states not to put it on your skin...so why would it be safe for a dog? (again, maybe I'm being over sensitive here)

Ideas? Thoughts? Comments? Thanks!

Hmmm I've heard bad things about Advantix (see links below for more info) but I've never used it myself. I can absolutely recommend FrontLine though, it's the type offered by most vet clinics and works well without doing harm.

The thing to remember is that these products contain pretty strong chemicals and, while MOST dogs will be fine, some will have an allergic reaction. You have to watch closely after application and be ready to spot any adverse effects and if it seems very bad then wash it off immediately and go straight to the vet.

Sometimes you just have to try some different brands until you find the one that's right for your dog. (I'm so lucky fleas and ticks aren't an issue here in Holland... just hope it's the same in Croatia!)

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*gasp* about the Advantix. I used to use Advantage on my chihuahua that I had a few years back, but with Abby, we use Frontline Plus. The only qualm I have about Frontline is the applicator - it's a cheapo plastic one that has somewhat jagged edges when you open the applicator. I have to squirt the medication out at an angle so that I don't scratch her skin and massage the skin around the application areas to get it to spread around.

The only thing Advantix has going for me is their applicator as it's round and more comfortable to apply the medication with. But if the medication is something that will bring discomfort to the dog, then I'd rather stay with Frontline and deal with the applicator with extra caution.

Can you get a single applicator of Frontline Plus for both dogs from your vet? What you can do is try it out next month to see if that's better instead of using Advantix on them again. If they respond to Frontline better, then see if you can return the Advantix if you bought in "bulk".

We don't sell frontline anymore in the vet practice I work. Most flees are immune to the substance. We got an awful lot of dogs and cats with complete flee invasion!

Permethrine is still one of the best working tick treatments. Never had any problems with my dogs and except a few individuals at work never had any problems at the practice.
These problems were very minor, nothing serious. You will always have individuals that are sensitive to substances.

Advantix is still not registered in the NL, but I think it should!! Advantage is still the best flee stuff there is and permethrin the best tick treatment.
I already use it together, so would be even better if you an buy them combined in advantix.

There was a brand of tick treatment that gave problems in the NL: Promeris, which uses amitraz as working substance. Works really good, but a lot of dogs got lethargic.

Karen,

I'm just trying to see if I read your post correctly...you're suggesting to buy 2 different medications specialized for their own purpose, that is, Advantage for fleas and Permethrine for ticks? Personally, I don't find any trouble for myself if both products are better than what I'm using - it's worth the hassle at my expense. lol.

EDIT: Nevermind...I went to look up the active ingredient list for both Advantix and Frontline Plus. I see Permethrine in Advantix...haha. I guess I should have done some research before I asked a stupid question.

LOL!

Yes, we don't have advantix in the NL. Not yet that is...
I use advantage first, couple of days later the permethrin. Most of the time I use them in turn every 2 weeks. this way they work together, both 4 weeks but never at the same time. Hope you know what I mean

Whenever clients take their dogs to a foreign country in summer, we recommend permethrin. Thank God we don't have heartworm in the NL yet, but there are more and more ticks that carry Lyme disease

Going back to the active ingredient list for both Frontline Plus and Advantix...Here's what both products contain:

Advantix:
Imidacloprid (8.8%), Permethrin (44.0%), Other ingredients (47.2%)

Frontline Plus:
fipronil 9.8% and S-methoprene 8.8%

(Source:

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What concerns me is the 44% permethrin...this sounds excessive to me (read too strong). Frontline Plus, on the other hand, sounds OK to me (though it might be a little weak...?).

Aside: It irks me that on both products's websites, they don't have the percentages of the active ingredients! My philosophy is: if you're going to be advertising a medication, you should have a list of active ingredient(s) for consumers to see in plain sight. And if the amount varies from product to product based on size, then each page should have that info on there. *resumes fuming*

I never saw probles with the permethrin at work ,but did see for years that frontline just doesn't work anymore.

A dog is allowed to scratch now and then... Doesn't mean there have to be flees.
Also, if there is a single flee that bit the dog, the dog can itch. You will never find that flee or maybe it is long gone....To an onther dog or bitten to death by the dog. The bite can itch for quiet some afterwards, especially when the dog is allergic.

Yea, I figure if she's not itching to a point where I'm uncomfortable with it, then she's fine. I still want to try out the Advantix to see how she does on that though. Even though she's not my dog, legally, my sister does get Abby all the items (food and medications) I want to get for her. Haha.

I have a friend who is a farmer, lots o' cows.
Anyway, he can apply ivermectin to our dog (dose based on weight)...
Though I think we won't start until he's older. He already routinely doses a few of our friends' dogs.
Your dog could be more sensitive to one pesticide over the other, I'm not sure how to get ivermectin easily, but your vet may know more, and it can be very tough to dose if it's not already easily set like a frontline pill.
That said, we've had great success with Frontline Plus.
We do a ton of hiking, and only 1 tick embedded so far on Wyatt.
Also, we supplement with a natural flea and tick spray...
Natural Chemistry Flea & Tick Spray.
It does have 1.2% sodium lauryl sulfate (not that I have any idea what that is), but the other active ingredients are all natural oils.
It only works for up to 1 week, but we only use it before going hiking in a heavy tick area. But, here's the bonus...It makes Wyatt smell like Cinnamon (one of the oils), and he doesn't mind the smell, like if you use human shampoo on a dog...It's even better than when he gets a shower, and it lasts for days and days.
Mike

Thank you all for sharing--this is some good info. That being said about the Advantix, my in-law's cat hates having Frontline or Advantage applied--he sulks for half the day after it's applied, and acts funny--maybe it's the smell (not that we can smell anything...but maybe he can).

Well, anyway. I think we'll look into the Natural stuff--thanks Mike. But we'll try Frontline for a month and see what happens. I was thinking that like the dog food thing (raw feeding, etc.) that there might be an alternative for flea and tick stuff too. Just curious

And yes, permethrin is the best tick repellant--that's why I use it on my clothes when I go out into the woods to film at our local park. Otherwise, I'd come out with 5-10 ticks on me every day--yuck! Pulling them out of your hair and ears is enough to give you a permanent case of the heebee jeebies.

And I will leave you all with that thought

My trainer uses and promotes a natural product called Billy No Mates, I don't use it at present as I use Frontline as my non-Tam dog has a very bad flea allergy so don't want to risk it. But many members of the dog club use it and say its fab.

Just found this info on the web about it

Looking for a natural flea treatment for your dog or cat? Billy No Mates! is a very effective, natural flea, mite and tick repellent. The aromatic combination of mint, seaweed, fenugreek, neem leaves and lemon balm should be simply sprinkled over your dog - or cat's food and as well as repelling 'boarders' is great for skin and coat condition.

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When we first moved into this house we had sheep in our field at the back of the house. When we let the dogs out Nevada always came back with ticks (none of the other dogs which was wierd)
We treated her almost weekly with frontline but it didn't work, we also tried another reccommended by the vets (can't remember what it was called though) but that didn't work either.
In the end we just stopped using the field in the hopes the ticks would eventually die off or leave.
I would love to find a tick and flea spray that actually worked so we can start using our field again, such a shame to see an acre of our land go to waste.

I believe feeding your dog garlic is supposed to be a flea repellent, dont know about tics. I dont know in what quantity though. However I have also read that garlic is not good for them, like onions I suppose. I have also read that raw fed dogs are less likely to pick up fleas and tics. Ayasca has had a couple of tics in the past but we have a little plastic device to remove them. I dont use any flea or tic stuff, for the dogs or the cats although I did used to use Frontline for the cats. Now I just check them to make sure they are clear. I prefer to avoid chemicals as much as possible. It depends on the weather in this country and as it is rarely very warm here fleas are not so much of a problem. Havent had a tic for ages either. Anyway, I always know if there are any fleas in the vicinity as they are irresistably attracted to my eldest son so he acts as a monitor

OMG OMG OMG! I just now spotted the first tick (albeit tiny) that I've seen in ages (over 5 years at least) ON MY LEG! Like, attached. YIKES! Anyway, it was hastily removed and squished and I'm going out first thing tomorrow morning to buy a flea / tick killer for Jasper and the 3 cats. Don't want to take chances... I am so grossed-out right now... and there might be more! LOL

Ticks don't bother me much if they're on the dog or cats but the fact it was on ME... uuuugh. yuck. yuck. yuck. Serves me right for prancing around in the long grass and wildflowers taking photos of Jaspy... I bet he's covered in them... *shudder*

Lol. My friend got one on her leg last year, she didn't even notice it for a while, was quite big when she found it.
I didn't think they really jumped on humans but obviously thats not true.
yuck, rather you than me.

I don't know if Lyme Disease exists in other countries, but if you get a rash in that spot where the tick was, go to the doctor right away. Or if you get a fever--not everyone gets a rash.

Also, for those in the US, if you take the tick to your local Health Department they will identify it for you and test it for Lyme. Deer ticks are the species that carry Lyme.

Of course, out west it's a different story: Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever. Uh, all these horrible things for such a positive experience of being out in nature.

Sorry, not to make you worried but better safe than sorry. I'm sure you can find which illnesses are tick-borne in your country.

As you know I have just imported my Malamute girl and she was treated with frontline as ordered by our government before entry into UK. Two days later after walking her I found two ticks on her head..... duh!!!!

Also about Lyme's disease...
The tick has to be attached to the dog for about 2 days before Lyme's disease can be transmitted to the dog. After about 48 hrs the tick releases some chemical from within their stomach to keep the blood from clotting. It is this process that transmits the disease (bacteria I think, or virus?), the bacteria/virus moves from the stomach an infected tick, where it lives in the tick, to the dog.
So, what that means, is while frontline or your treatment of choice may not keep all ticks from attaching, check your dog thoroughly and regularly for the 2 days after possible exposure to ticks. Even after only a day, a tick that may only be the size of a pinhead, will swell to many times its size, making them much easier to find in that 24-48 hr period.
If your dog spends a lot of time outside in your yard, I think as long as the grass remains regularly cut, it keeps the concentration of ticks way down. The taller grasses facilitates their goal of finding a host to attach to...We live out in deer country, but only when we take the dog out on nature hikes do we find ticks on our dog, as a personal example.
Hope that helps.
Mike

Good info! Thanks Mike.


BTW I just noticed at the spot where I applied Frontline Combo (on the back of Jasper's neck) over a week ago, there are now several small scabs that have formed. I picked off a bit of the scab and it looked a bit weepy and sore underneath. It's the exact same area that I applied the drops so it must be from the medication, there's no other possible cause as far as I can discern. Possible allergic reaction? Should I be concerned?

Fenris always has bad dandruff in the area where we apply Advantix for a few days after. Poor guy. It just doesn't seem right to me, either, that their skin should react that way.

Does anyone skip the winter months for applying flea / tick treatment or heartworm preventative? Of course--you'd only consider this if it was cold in the winter where you live. There are certainly no mosquitos here between October and April...

Ticks, of course, can be picked up any time of year...but fleas?

Just before winter start you see a huge amount of fleas inside the houses... just from the heating getting back on inside.
I never treat them during winter and never had problems.
Luckily we still don't have heartworm in the NL but you can see it getting closer. At first is was only around the Mediterranean, now it is almost in the north of France.

There have been a few cases of heartworm here in UK. First in the South of the country but now recorded as far north as Scotland.

We had cases of heartworm, but those were all from dogs who have been in Italy, Spain or France.